What are your options for CNC Routers and Milling Machines?
Where to Start?
Questions that will help you choose the best option:
1. What is your budget?
2. What do you want to make?
3. How large will your parts be?
4. What materials do you want to cut?
5. Are you planning to make high or low quantities?
6. Will you sell your creations?
7. How much of your work area can you dedicate to your CNC router and accessories?
Click HERE for more CNC router channels and resources.
1. What is your budget?
2. What do you want to make?
3. How large will your parts be?
4. What materials do you want to cut?
5. Are you planning to make high or low quantities?
6. Will you sell your creations?
7. How much of your work area can you dedicate to your CNC router and accessories?
Click HERE for more CNC router channels and resources.
Routers vs. Mills
Router vs. Spindle The short version... routers are consumer grade with less life, lower accuracy and more noise but at a cheaper price. Spindles are industrial grade with much longer life, higher accuracy and the initial purchase is more expensive. A router may last around 500 hours before the brushes need to be replaced. A spindle is brushless so it will run until the bearings wear out which should be in excess of 6000 hours of operation. Routers are fine for consumers who use them intermittently. Routers generally come in 110 VAC 1.25 hp versions. Spindles are most often 220 VAC and may be rated from 2hp to 20hp or more. Routers often have manual speed control on the router itself. Spindles can be controlled by the CNC control software and can turn at lower rpms which makes them useful for use with large diameter bits or in harder materials that need bit rpms less than 15,000 rpms. Because spindles don't have motor brushes they are nearly silent when running. When using small cutters for long periods of time this is a huge benefit. Cutters 1/4" and larger make a lot of noise while cutting so a spindle doesn't offer much noise benefit when using these bits.
CNC Routers are generally much less expensive than mills and have larger cut volumes. Routers are typically MUCH less rigid than milling machines and won't cut metals nearly as fast, as clean, or as accurately as a CNC mill. However you can get excellent results in soft metals like aluminum if you dial in the tool paths and tools just right. To see some extraordinary examples of high end metal parts cut on a Shapeoko3 check out this Instagram page.
The main advantages of a router are the much lower cost and larger cut volumes. Another significant difference is that routers tend to have high speed low torque spindles that turn 15,000 to 25,000 rpms. This works well for softer materials like wood and plastics but tends to be too fast for milling metals efficiently. Running bits at 15,000 rpms in metals generates a lot of heat which will cause cutters to dull quickly and leads to taking very shallow passes which adds time to operations. It is possible to cut soft metals like aluminum and brass with a CNC router and even steel may be cut using certain tooling and the right settings but the accuracy, finish and time to cut will suffer compared to a CNC mill.
Desktop CNC's are typically more rigid than CNC routers and less rigid than CNC mills. They are made with a small footprint and enclosures to allow cutting within an office space. Beware... many of them have very low power spindles (under 1/4hp). For machines that use spindles less than 1 hp can't remove material very quickly and are relegated to using cutters that are 1/8" diameter or smaller to prevent overloading the spindle. For a given amount of $$, a desktop CNC will typically have higher accuracy than the same price CNC router.
CNC Milling machines are generally very heavy and rigid machines that offer spindles that can turn as low as 500 rpm with high torque. A rigid frame and a low speed, high torque spindle makes them well suited to cut metals quickly and efficiently. It is not uncommon for a CNC milling machine to hold tolerances better than +/- 0.002" when milling steel with heavy loading. This simply isn't possible with CNC routers because they aren't stiff enough to handle the loads without major deflections.
CNC Routers are generally much less expensive than mills and have larger cut volumes. Routers are typically MUCH less rigid than milling machines and won't cut metals nearly as fast, as clean, or as accurately as a CNC mill. However you can get excellent results in soft metals like aluminum if you dial in the tool paths and tools just right. To see some extraordinary examples of high end metal parts cut on a Shapeoko3 check out this Instagram page.
The main advantages of a router are the much lower cost and larger cut volumes. Another significant difference is that routers tend to have high speed low torque spindles that turn 15,000 to 25,000 rpms. This works well for softer materials like wood and plastics but tends to be too fast for milling metals efficiently. Running bits at 15,000 rpms in metals generates a lot of heat which will cause cutters to dull quickly and leads to taking very shallow passes which adds time to operations. It is possible to cut soft metals like aluminum and brass with a CNC router and even steel may be cut using certain tooling and the right settings but the accuracy, finish and time to cut will suffer compared to a CNC mill.
Desktop CNC's are typically more rigid than CNC routers and less rigid than CNC mills. They are made with a small footprint and enclosures to allow cutting within an office space. Beware... many of them have very low power spindles (under 1/4hp). For machines that use spindles less than 1 hp can't remove material very quickly and are relegated to using cutters that are 1/8" diameter or smaller to prevent overloading the spindle. For a given amount of $$, a desktop CNC will typically have higher accuracy than the same price CNC router.
CNC Milling machines are generally very heavy and rigid machines that offer spindles that can turn as low as 500 rpm with high torque. A rigid frame and a low speed, high torque spindle makes them well suited to cut metals quickly and efficiently. It is not uncommon for a CNC milling machine to hold tolerances better than +/- 0.002" when milling steel with heavy loading. This simply isn't possible with CNC routers because they aren't stiff enough to handle the loads without major deflections.
CNC Router Options
There are literally hundreds of brands to choose from but these are the ones I see mentioned the most often...
$1,100 - $2,000 Shapeoko3 Up to 3" x 32" x 32" cut volume. Typically uses 1.25 hp router. It can support a spindle.
$1,300 - $2,600 MillRight MegaV Up to 3.75" x 35" x 35" cut volume. Typically uses 1.25 hp router but can support a spindle. Offers 4th axis and plasma cutter options.
$900 - $1,500 XCarve Up to 2.5" x 29.5" x 29.5" cut volume. Uses 1.25 hp router. Not stiff enough to support more power.
$2.000 - $2,400 Onefinity Up to 4" x 32" x 32" cut volume. I assume it uses a 1.25hp router but the website doesn't say.
$3,000 - $10,000 CNC Router Parts Up to 12"x5'x10' cut volume. Uses up to 3hp spindle.
Which one should I choose?
I own a Shapeoko3 XXL (SO3), a Nomad883 Pro, and a MillRight MegaV. As of 5/12/20 I haven't seen any review information on the Onefinity.
I use my SO3 all the time and it has been a great machine. The Z-gantry isn't very stiff and the z drive is weak. This allows flex which means I have to mess around with parts to get them closer than +/-0.015" accuracy. For parts that don't require tight tolerances it is awesome. I have seen some outstanding projects made with a SO3 so it is a very capable machine. However, Carbide3D offers a z-axis gantry upgrade that is worth looking into since it significantly stiffens the stock z gantry.
I bought the MillRight MegaV because it has the following advantages (on paper) over the SO3:
NOTE: So far my experience with customer support has been very negative. More information below in the customer support section.
The MegaV has impressive specifications for a hobby grade CNC (MegaV specs. listed first).
1. The MegaV uses linear guides for the z-axis. The SO3 uses plastic V-rollers so z gantry flex is the Shapeoko 3's Achilles heel. However, choosing the SO3 z axis upgrade option should fix this.
2. The MegaV uses a screw driven z-axis vs. the SO3's belt-driven z-axis. The SO3 z-axis stalls pretty easily. Again, the z axis upgrade option should take care of this issue too.
3. The MegaV uses rack and pinion x and y drives vs. belts. Belts on the xy axes of the Shapeoko are not a problem, especially if they are replaced with steel core belts that are tensioned correctly. It will be interesting to see if the rack and pinion system of the MegaV maintains accuracy over time.
4. The MegaV has a 15% larger cut area and 25% more z height than the SO3.
5. The MegaV has 1/4" steel beam plates vs. 1/8" for the SO3.
6. The MegaV motors have 2x the holding torque and much higher travel speed capability than the SO3 motors.
7. The MegaV has 4th axis capability built-in whereas the SO3 does not.
8. My MegaV came with a dust shoe and touch-off plate for less than the cost of a SO3 without those. I don't know if those come with the units sold after the Kickstarter or not. The dust shoe isn't very well designed but if it comes with the machine that's a bonus. It is useable with minor modifications to add more magnets.
9. A plasma cutter option is available for the MegaV.
10. Nothing on the MegaV comes pre assembled but Millright has excellent assembly videos available. The SO3 instructions are difficult to follow but several of the sub assemblies come preassembled. Warning: you have to remove every screw and add loctite or they will come loose later so the preassembled components save some time but not a lot. Also, the SO3 has a notorious issue with one of the Y axis rails being a little longer than the other due to a QA issue. It doesn't affect overall performance for most uses but it may drive you crazy since you can't get the x gantry to hit the rear of the y gantry rails at the same time. It makes the machine appear out of square when it is not.
At least according to the specs, the MegaV appears to offer more for less $$ with than the XCarve or Shapeoko3. I'll update once I have a chance to test actual performance.
I did not buy the XCarve because it simply isn't very stiff. The frame extrusions are tiny compared to the SO3 and MegaV machines which allows a lot more flex. This reduces accuracy and degrades surface finishes and prevents using larger cutters that the SO3 and MegaV can handle.
I never use my NomadPro anymore because the 0.07 hp (it is a toy) spindle is so underpowered it takes forever to cut anything of any size. However, if you cut very small parts or use very soft materials it is accurate and very easy to use. The desktop form factor is very convenient too. The enclosure does a good job of containing dust and chips. You can expect to hold +/-0.005 tolerances without tinkering with settings. Closer tolerances are possible depending on material, cutting speeds and tools. Eventually I plan to modify my Nomad to use a 1.25 hp router so it can be used for larger parts with harder materials.
Customer Support and Communities
MillRight
So far my experience with customer support has been very negative. There are several very positive customer support reviews as well as several very negative ones. You can search the following group for "support" to form your own opinion... https://www.facebook.com/groups/243620779833403/
They have two BBB complaints filed as of Jan 2020.
The XCarve and Shapeoko companies both have excellent reputations for customer service. I have received excellent support from Carbide3D for my SO3 when I needed it. Carbide3D puts customers first. They get glowing reviews in an independent SO3 Facebook group I'm in. I haven't seen any negative reviews regarding XCarve which probably means that they also have good customer support.
The XCarve and Shapeoko online communities are great. The MillRight community isn't nearly as active yet but I suspect that it will grow very quickly as the number of MegaV owners increases.
Other options: (in order of increasing cost)
Stepcraft makes nice machines that are quite a bit more expensive than the three machines mentioned here.
Avid CNC (formerly cncrouterparts.com) makes excellent machine up to production grade. This is the machine that several prominent YouTube makers use.
I see the Shop Sabre highly recommended quite often. These have welded steel tube frames and optional 4th axis controls.
Other brands that I see mentioned frequently... Grizzly, Powermatic, Shark
There are literally hundreds of CNC router companies to choose from but these are the ones I see most often. If you have a brand or model that you think belongs in this list contact me and I'll consider adding it to this page.
$1,100 - $2,000 Shapeoko3 Up to 3" x 32" x 32" cut volume. Typically uses 1.25 hp router. It can support a spindle.
$1,300 - $2,600 MillRight MegaV Up to 3.75" x 35" x 35" cut volume. Typically uses 1.25 hp router but can support a spindle. Offers 4th axis and plasma cutter options.
$900 - $1,500 XCarve Up to 2.5" x 29.5" x 29.5" cut volume. Uses 1.25 hp router. Not stiff enough to support more power.
$2.000 - $2,400 Onefinity Up to 4" x 32" x 32" cut volume. I assume it uses a 1.25hp router but the website doesn't say.
$3,000 - $10,000 CNC Router Parts Up to 12"x5'x10' cut volume. Uses up to 3hp spindle.
Which one should I choose?
I own a Shapeoko3 XXL (SO3), a Nomad883 Pro, and a MillRight MegaV. As of 5/12/20 I haven't seen any review information on the Onefinity.
I use my SO3 all the time and it has been a great machine. The Z-gantry isn't very stiff and the z drive is weak. This allows flex which means I have to mess around with parts to get them closer than +/-0.015" accuracy. For parts that don't require tight tolerances it is awesome. I have seen some outstanding projects made with a SO3 so it is a very capable machine. However, Carbide3D offers a z-axis gantry upgrade that is worth looking into since it significantly stiffens the stock z gantry.
I bought the MillRight MegaV because it has the following advantages (on paper) over the SO3:
NOTE: So far my experience with customer support has been very negative. More information below in the customer support section.
The MegaV has impressive specifications for a hobby grade CNC (MegaV specs. listed first).
1. The MegaV uses linear guides for the z-axis. The SO3 uses plastic V-rollers so z gantry flex is the Shapeoko 3's Achilles heel. However, choosing the SO3 z axis upgrade option should fix this.
2. The MegaV uses a screw driven z-axis vs. the SO3's belt-driven z-axis. The SO3 z-axis stalls pretty easily. Again, the z axis upgrade option should take care of this issue too.
3. The MegaV uses rack and pinion x and y drives vs. belts. Belts on the xy axes of the Shapeoko are not a problem, especially if they are replaced with steel core belts that are tensioned correctly. It will be interesting to see if the rack and pinion system of the MegaV maintains accuracy over time.
4. The MegaV has a 15% larger cut area and 25% more z height than the SO3.
5. The MegaV has 1/4" steel beam plates vs. 1/8" for the SO3.
6. The MegaV motors have 2x the holding torque and much higher travel speed capability than the SO3 motors.
7. The MegaV has 4th axis capability built-in whereas the SO3 does not.
8. My MegaV came with a dust shoe and touch-off plate for less than the cost of a SO3 without those. I don't know if those come with the units sold after the Kickstarter or not. The dust shoe isn't very well designed but if it comes with the machine that's a bonus. It is useable with minor modifications to add more magnets.
9. A plasma cutter option is available for the MegaV.
10. Nothing on the MegaV comes pre assembled but Millright has excellent assembly videos available. The SO3 instructions are difficult to follow but several of the sub assemblies come preassembled. Warning: you have to remove every screw and add loctite or they will come loose later so the preassembled components save some time but not a lot. Also, the SO3 has a notorious issue with one of the Y axis rails being a little longer than the other due to a QA issue. It doesn't affect overall performance for most uses but it may drive you crazy since you can't get the x gantry to hit the rear of the y gantry rails at the same time. It makes the machine appear out of square when it is not.
At least according to the specs, the MegaV appears to offer more for less $$ with than the XCarve or Shapeoko3. I'll update once I have a chance to test actual performance.
I did not buy the XCarve because it simply isn't very stiff. The frame extrusions are tiny compared to the SO3 and MegaV machines which allows a lot more flex. This reduces accuracy and degrades surface finishes and prevents using larger cutters that the SO3 and MegaV can handle.
I never use my NomadPro anymore because the 0.07 hp (it is a toy) spindle is so underpowered it takes forever to cut anything of any size. However, if you cut very small parts or use very soft materials it is accurate and very easy to use. The desktop form factor is very convenient too. The enclosure does a good job of containing dust and chips. You can expect to hold +/-0.005 tolerances without tinkering with settings. Closer tolerances are possible depending on material, cutting speeds and tools. Eventually I plan to modify my Nomad to use a 1.25 hp router so it can be used for larger parts with harder materials.
Customer Support and Communities
MillRight
So far my experience with customer support has been very negative. There are several very positive customer support reviews as well as several very negative ones. You can search the following group for "support" to form your own opinion... https://www.facebook.com/groups/243620779833403/
They have two BBB complaints filed as of Jan 2020.
The XCarve and Shapeoko companies both have excellent reputations for customer service. I have received excellent support from Carbide3D for my SO3 when I needed it. Carbide3D puts customers first. They get glowing reviews in an independent SO3 Facebook group I'm in. I haven't seen any negative reviews regarding XCarve which probably means that they also have good customer support.
The XCarve and Shapeoko online communities are great. The MillRight community isn't nearly as active yet but I suspect that it will grow very quickly as the number of MegaV owners increases.
Other options: (in order of increasing cost)
Stepcraft makes nice machines that are quite a bit more expensive than the three machines mentioned here.
Avid CNC (formerly cncrouterparts.com) makes excellent machine up to production grade. This is the machine that several prominent YouTube makers use.
I see the Shop Sabre highly recommended quite often. These have welded steel tube frames and optional 4th axis controls.
Other brands that I see mentioned frequently... Grizzly, Powermatic, Shark
There are literally hundreds of CNC router companies to choose from but these are the ones I see most often. If you have a brand or model that you think belongs in this list contact me and I'll consider adding it to this page.
CNC Milling Machine Options
Again, there are many options. I'll list more as your suggestions come in...
Starting around $8,500 Tormach
Starting around $8,500 Tormach
Software Options
$350 to $700 - Vectric VCarve is by far the most popular and easy to use software for CNC routing. VCarve is the best choice if you want to make signs and more single part artistic designs. It comes with a lot of 2D and 3D clipart and a number of "widgets" that allow you to compete a wide variety of specialty tasks that Fusion 360 doesn't offer. It is one of the easiest to learn packages and the Vectric YouTube tutorials are second to none. It allows 2D, 2.5D, 3D and rotary axis CAM.
Free - Fusion 360 is also very popular and it is free for start-ups and hobbyists. Fusion 360 is a better option if you want to design (CAD) and cut (CAM) parts and assemblies that have a lot of interconnected parts. Since it includes a CAD package you can build parts then constrain them in assemblies to see how they move and function. It takes a lot of the trial and error time out of designing since you can see what will work before you ever cut your first part. Fusion 360 has more options for CAM settings than VCarve and Aspire but it has a much steeper learning curve and fewer specialty functions specifically designed for CNC routing. It allows 2D, 3D, using 3, 4 or 5 axis operations. It is much more powerful CAD engine than Aspire and even includes stress analysis tools.
$2,000 Vectric Aspire - This is Vectric's package that includes CAD and CAM so you can create your 3D artwork and create the tool paths in the same software.
Free - Easel . This software is free and relatively easy to use and will allow you to design and create tool paths for your 2D and 2.5d designs.
Free - Carbide Create . Another free and relatively simple to use software. I tried Carbide Create in 2016 when I bought my SO3 but I didn't like it. I'm sure it has improved a lot since then. I don't think anyone will be able to compete with Vectric VCarve anytime soon though.
$250 - $500 MeshCAM. I used MeshCAM for a few months and it was okay for 3D carving but it was very buggy and created tool paths that took 10x longer than they needed to take so I stopped using it. That was 2016 and it looks like they have added quite a few features since then so it may be worth looking at, I can't say for sure.
Free - Fusion 360 is also very popular and it is free for start-ups and hobbyists. Fusion 360 is a better option if you want to design (CAD) and cut (CAM) parts and assemblies that have a lot of interconnected parts. Since it includes a CAD package you can build parts then constrain them in assemblies to see how they move and function. It takes a lot of the trial and error time out of designing since you can see what will work before you ever cut your first part. Fusion 360 has more options for CAM settings than VCarve and Aspire but it has a much steeper learning curve and fewer specialty functions specifically designed for CNC routing. It allows 2D, 3D, using 3, 4 or 5 axis operations. It is much more powerful CAD engine than Aspire and even includes stress analysis tools.
$2,000 Vectric Aspire - This is Vectric's package that includes CAD and CAM so you can create your 3D artwork and create the tool paths in the same software.
Free - Easel . This software is free and relatively easy to use and will allow you to design and create tool paths for your 2D and 2.5d designs.
Free - Carbide Create . Another free and relatively simple to use software. I tried Carbide Create in 2016 when I bought my SO3 but I didn't like it. I'm sure it has improved a lot since then. I don't think anyone will be able to compete with Vectric VCarve anytime soon though.
$250 - $500 MeshCAM. I used MeshCAM for a few months and it was okay for 3D carving but it was very buggy and created tool paths that took 10x longer than they needed to take so I stopped using it. That was 2016 and it looks like they have added quite a few features since then so it may be worth looking at, I can't say for sure.